Best Robert Heinlein novel?

[Vince W]

My favourites are Space Cadet and Starman Jones. The first two ‘real’ science fiction novels I ever read.

 

[JunkMonkey]

Given that I find him all but unreadable these days I will have to fall back on my childhood memories.

Of his 'Juveniles' - the first 'Grown up' (I know) SF books I read - I think Have Space Suit, Will Travel is the one I remember with most fondness. I haven't read it for 50 odd years and I still get the feeling of 'possibility' it gave me when I think of it. I will never read it again because I suspect I will hate it as much as loathed just about everything else of his I've reread. That memory is precious to me. I don't need it ruined.

 

[Parson]

I will never read it again because I suspect I will hate it as much as loathed just about everything else of his I've reread.

"Loathing" everything you've re-read sounds like more than having a matured understanding and appreciation of the art of literature than you had as a youngster. Can you say more? Perhaps his view of human morals?

 

[JunkMonkey]

"Loathing" everything you've re-read sounds like more than having a matured understanding and appreciation of the art of literature than you had as a youngster. Can you say more? Perhaps his view of human morals?

Without getting into politics, which ain't allowed around here, not really - I can read past the dated sexism and racism (to an extent) as being a product of his time. All I will really say is I find his gun-owning, anti-governmental, libertarianism attitudes utterly repugnant.

 

[Parson]

Without getting into politics, which ain't allowed around here, not really - I can read past the dated sexism and racism (to an extent) as being a product of his time. All I will really say is I find his gun-owning, anti-governmental, libertarianism attitudes utterly repugnant.

Thank you. This is what I thought, although I would have guessed more the dated sexism/racism than the libertarianism. I don't remember much of either of them in Have Spacesuit Will Travel. But the Lazarus Long "universe" was certainly rife with that.

 

[AE35Unit]

Lazarus Long is a brilliant character. I loved those books

 

[JimC]

" I think it reckless to assume he endorsed ideas merely because he put so much effort into the writing and the building of that character".

Ginny was fussing about that one day and I said, "Haven't they heard about peddling books"?
She responded, "Hmmf, you got that right".

It was a sore subject with her.

 

[EricJ]

Have Spacesuit, will Travel is what got me into scifi, and I need to reread it because I did when I was youngin, and don't remember much other than the talking cat and the kid who wanted a spacesuit so bad. Starship Troopers was a good book, but didn't resonate like Hammer's Slammers looking back on it though.

 

[BAYLOR]

I finally got around to reading Red Planet , it was a really good read.

 

[Orcadian]

Feel like a pariah on this thread but the only Heinlein story I can remember loving is And He Built A Crooked House, which I encountered aged 12 or so, just as my interest in maths was taking off. In fact it was probably one of the things that stimulated it! (Around this time I also had One, Two, Three, Infinity and Mathermatical Puzzles and Diversions - and a glass Klein bottle.)

 

[BAYLOR]

Feel like a pariah on this thread but the only Heinlein story I can remember loving is And He Built A Crooked House, which I encountered aged 12 or so, just as my interest in maths was taking off. In fact it was probably one of the things that stimulated it! (Around this time I also had One, Two, Three, Infinity and Mathermatical Puzzles and Diversions - and a glass Klein bottle.)

He's definitely worth the read . If I may suggest Tunnel in the Sky would be good starting point . Earth has space travel tech somewhat along the lines of StarGate SG1 In that future society school students , teens take a course in survival on a hostile planet. They're allowed to take any kind any kind of weapon from a knife all the way up to a nuclear bomb. It's somewhat along the lines of the The Hunger Games and It's a fun read .

 

[JunkMonkey]

Thank you. This is what I thought, although I would have guessed more the dated sexism/racism than the libertarianism. I don't remember much of either of them in Have Spacesuit Will Travel. But the Lazarus Long "universe" was certainly rife with that.

A long time in replying but you said it yourself, the racism and sexism are dated. They can be marked down to ignorance and the cultural norms of the time he was writing. Attitudes about race and sexual equality and sexuality change but the words on the page don't. (Unless you are reading a Bowdlerised version of a book.)

 

[Toby Frost]

I don't find Heinlein convincing as a tough guy, and I always suspected that Harry Harrison's view of the military was more accurate. However, it's worth pointing out that Heinlein is coming from a "tradition" that's very alien to British readers. From this side of the pond it's almost misleading that he wrote in English, as his outlook feels very foreign to the UK.

" I think it reckless to assume he endorsed ideas merely because he put so much effort into the writing and the building of that character".

This always puzzles me. I can't imagine writing 200 pages about something that didn't really interest me, either as something I was strongly for or against. I wouldn't want to write a novel about, say, fishing or spiritualism, because I don't have strong feelings about them. So I'm never entirely convinced when it's said that people like Heinlein and S.M. Stirling are just "throwing ideas around".

 

[Orcadian]

If I may suggest Tunnel in the Sky would be good starting point .

I'm now wondering if I read this, long ago. There's some sort of trial young people have to go on, on some planet. When the lead character (teenager/young adult) comes round, he is in a tree, equipped with minimal survival kit. He ends up teaming up with another cadet (possibly female) and together they make it through various hazards to the central point that all these kids are aiming for. Does that sound like it, or am I thinking of another coming-of-age story?

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

Nah, not for me. I just find his stuff poorly written. It has a rushed, couldn't-care-less feel to it. I don't think I ever got far enough to worry about his politics.

 

[JunkMonkey]

I will be grateful for his books for one reason. I read most of them as a kid and I have come to realise recently that though I avidly read all his rabid libertarian patriarchal adventures I grew up to be very left wing and egalitarian. (In US terms this makes me a raving pinko.)
which makes me think keeping books with 'unsuitable' content from kids is just plain stupid. Reading a book about 'fight the system, survivalist, rugged individualist, 'to hell with everyone but family' heroics isn't going to turn readers into militia-men any more than books about two male penguins bringing up a baby chick are going to 'turn' the reader gay.

 

[Swank]

It seems odd to think that a guy whose novels championed sexual fluidity, altered consciousness, gender change, legal prostitution and consensual incest as somehow 'right wing'. Might as well claim that Frank Herbert was promoting monarchy, or that Ken MacLeod is a Maoist. Wasn't he also one of the earlier SF writers to have characters with diverse backgrounds - black, Jewish, etc? Seems like the guy gets villainized for not being modern enough in his inclusiveness, and therefore should have stuck with the usual all white, all male cast preferred by his peers.

I think Heinlein tried very hard to envision future versions of government or other social systems that had never previously been attempted. Because he was writing SF.


I quite like The Door Into Summer. Has anyone seen the film adaptation?

 

[JunkMonkey]

It seems odd to think that a guy whose novels championed sexual fluidity, altered consciousness, gender change, legal prostitution and consensual incest as somehow 'right wing'.

What does any of that have to do with political leanings? Roy Cohn and J Edgar Hoover spring to mind.

The Door into Summer - time travelling underage Lolita grooming? Er... No thanks

 

[Swank]

What does any of that have to do with political leanings? Roy Cohn and J Edgar Hoover spring to mind.

The Door into Summer - time travelling underage Lolita grooming? Er... No thanks

How is a book about a Latino mc and a government system that disenfranchises the rich right wing?

When is inclusiveness, diversity and sexual freedom right wing?

Why do modern liberals congratulate themselves on disarming people?



I recently had a run in with someone who thinks Ian Banks is a shill for Elon Musk and ChatGPT because the Culture has good AI. The constant goal post moving is tiresome. Heinlein was liberal and his books promoted reexamining our prejudices and normal assumptions. He made a lot more liberals than conservatives, even if some conservatives now like to pretend they like what he promoted. But they only like it where convenient, just as conservatives often do.

 

[Pyan]

Right. This thread is about RAH's best novel, not about his views on politics and social politics. It should be a given that any books written 70 years ago will have a different view on things to today's outlook.
Discuss the books, not the author's socio-political views, please. I understand that this can be difficult, but the thread is getting close to being closed.