We have discussed the future of the cinema in other threads but it didn't have a single thread where I could post this. It was already a sick man, but I think the news this morning may be considered its assisted dying. NO POLITICS.
I don't want to discuss the reasons why, whether stated or otherwise.
If people start discussing that it is to protect US culture from foreign influences then the thread will be closed.
I do see that there is an economic argument, but that argument can neither be made nor disputed on this forum either.
What I would like to know is how this will actually affect TV and film making and especially the effect on cinema houses?
Background: Apparently, it seems that Hollywood’s has been asking for US Federal tax incentives for filming in America for some time, to match those given by other countries. However, instead of getting what they wished for, they are getting a 100% tariff on any film produced outside the USA, which they didn't want or need. This will include Hollywood's own productions. As an example, Marvel has just moved it's base to London, and Avengers Doomsday is currently filming in London.
I'm not clear how these tariffs will work. They may not actually be applied as currently proposed? From the experience of the other previous tariffs that were announced on imports, they changed several times before implementation, and several times more afterwards, however as proposed right now, this would double the budget of any films currently in production.
I appreciate that it is difficult to discuss tariffs without the politics, but I do think that filmmaking as an industry is a very special case, where that even if they do work for i.e. raw materials, they cannot work for film-production. Or, is it just another business now run by executive accountants like any other?
It also isn't clear if they will apply to TV productions. When is a TV movie a "film"? What if it is split into parts and called a series? What if it has a sequel? The person responsible to deciding this will have a headache over the definitions.
Big budget films are filmed all over the world, with different scenes in different locations. SFF films in particular use geographical and geological features that only exist outside the USA as backdrops for alien planets and otherworldliness. I have no idea (who does?) if the tariffs apply to this location filming or only to the studio work.
However, if this news is taken at face value - that a 100% tariff will be applied to any film made wholly or partly outside of the USA - then that is surely going to be the death knell of the cinema?
The cinema has already suffered from a long-term decline in audiences, exasperated by COVID-19 restrictions, increased taxes and car parking rises, TV streaming, and an inflation driven cost of living crisis, but it was showing some green shoots of recovery. This is a tax on cinema going. Big studios will be able to weather this storm, but your arthouse studio producing independent or experimental, or more artistically challenging films, often without mainstream commercial appeal will surely die.
TV Drama also is suffering. There has been a fall in advertising revenue and the way the TV and Streaming services are funded has been changing. Reality TV is cheaper to make.
We've discussed these problems with Cinema Going in other threads here, so let's not go over those other subjects again: A Growing indifference to Cinema Going
We've also discussed Streaming: Streaming , Does it Still Have a Viable Future ?
In this thread let's just discuss the pricing. Why are people not prepared to pay more? Is it actually too expensive?
The main reason that I don't go to the cinema as much any more may be convenience, but the price is certainly second. This news will increase prices. That's why I think it is so bad.
Just to add, that I do go to the theatre and other arts events, which are quite pricey, and I'm prepared to pay for those. They are often subsidised rather than taxed. Cinema has always been aimed at the less-well of in society. The "moving pictures" replaced the music hall in many theatres. So, taxing it is a tax on the poor, and another reason why I think it is wrong.
However, I also think we have become accustomed to cinema (and TV) being very cheap (while big profits could still be made) and that we should pay for the kind of drama we want to see if we want to see more SFF. There are options like Crowdfunding today.
This is a Breaking News story this morning. Is it possible please to talk about this subject without being political or mentioning the "T" word? Please?
I don't want to discuss the reasons why, whether stated or otherwise.
If people start discussing that it is to protect US culture from foreign influences then the thread will be closed.
I do see that there is an economic argument, but that argument can neither be made nor disputed on this forum either.
What I would like to know is how this will actually affect TV and film making and especially the effect on cinema houses?
Background: Apparently, it seems that Hollywood’s has been asking for US Federal tax incentives for filming in America for some time, to match those given by other countries. However, instead of getting what they wished for, they are getting a 100% tariff on any film produced outside the USA, which they didn't want or need. This will include Hollywood's own productions. As an example, Marvel has just moved it's base to London, and Avengers Doomsday is currently filming in London.
I'm not clear how these tariffs will work. They may not actually be applied as currently proposed? From the experience of the other previous tariffs that were announced on imports, they changed several times before implementation, and several times more afterwards, however as proposed right now, this would double the budget of any films currently in production.
I appreciate that it is difficult to discuss tariffs without the politics, but I do think that filmmaking as an industry is a very special case, where that even if they do work for i.e. raw materials, they cannot work for film-production. Or, is it just another business now run by executive accountants like any other?
It also isn't clear if they will apply to TV productions. When is a TV movie a "film"? What if it is split into parts and called a series? What if it has a sequel? The person responsible to deciding this will have a headache over the definitions.
Big budget films are filmed all over the world, with different scenes in different locations. SFF films in particular use geographical and geological features that only exist outside the USA as backdrops for alien planets and otherworldliness. I have no idea (who does?) if the tariffs apply to this location filming or only to the studio work.
However, if this news is taken at face value - that a 100% tariff will be applied to any film made wholly or partly outside of the USA - then that is surely going to be the death knell of the cinema?
The cinema has already suffered from a long-term decline in audiences, exasperated by COVID-19 restrictions, increased taxes and car parking rises, TV streaming, and an inflation driven cost of living crisis, but it was showing some green shoots of recovery. This is a tax on cinema going. Big studios will be able to weather this storm, but your arthouse studio producing independent or experimental, or more artistically challenging films, often without mainstream commercial appeal will surely die.
TV Drama also is suffering. There has been a fall in advertising revenue and the way the TV and Streaming services are funded has been changing. Reality TV is cheaper to make.
We've discussed these problems with Cinema Going in other threads here, so let's not go over those other subjects again: A Growing indifference to Cinema Going
We've also discussed Streaming: Streaming , Does it Still Have a Viable Future ?
In this thread let's just discuss the pricing. Why are people not prepared to pay more? Is it actually too expensive?
The main reason that I don't go to the cinema as much any more may be convenience, but the price is certainly second. This news will increase prices. That's why I think it is so bad.
Just to add, that I do go to the theatre and other arts events, which are quite pricey, and I'm prepared to pay for those. They are often subsidised rather than taxed. Cinema has always been aimed at the less-well of in society. The "moving pictures" replaced the music hall in many theatres. So, taxing it is a tax on the poor, and another reason why I think it is wrong.
However, I also think we have become accustomed to cinema (and TV) being very cheap (while big profits could still be made) and that we should pay for the kind of drama we want to see if we want to see more SFF. There are options like Crowdfunding today.
